Cannabis Sativa
Gardaí seized cannabis, both plants and herbs, valued at more than €900,000 in Tipperary this weekend.
The seizure, one of the biggest finds of it’s kind in Tipperary, saw Gardaí seize more than 1,500 cannabis plants with an estimated street valued of €900,000. A quantity of cannabis herb, prepared for smoking, was also found during the raid.
The seizures were made following a search of a premises in the Main Street of Borrisokane village on Saturday morning last, as part of a planned Garda search.
The plants were found growing in rooms which had been carefully converted, using high wattage lights to create the bright light and heat needed for the purpose of commercially growing the cannabis plants. The premises was also fitted with a network of tubes, pumping water and plant feed, unto the hundreds of plants growing on the premises.
Those behind the operation had also installed a complex ventilation system to remove the pungent smell caused by the cannabis being cultivated in these growing conditions.
A parts of the premises had also been set aside for use as a potting and incubation area, to grow new saplings cut from the maturing crop.
Local Independent Councillor Michael O’Meara (Member of ‘Team Lowry ‘) had rented out the premises, but claims he was not aware of the activities being carried on.
No arrests were made in the course of this search operation, however investigations are still continuing.
If caught, punishment is too small
Agreed,cannabis it is the most common illegal drug used in Ireland. Note car drivers using alcohol, where road deaths are involved, are charged with manslaughter, Drug dealers arrested should also be automatically charged with manslaughter. The number of Irish road deaths in 2007 were 336, while drug related deaths recorded in 2007 were 476 and it is believed that this database does not reflect a true picture. Between 1998 and 2007 a total of 3,465 drug-related deaths and deaths among drug users was recorded. Police appear to do the detection, but courts let them down. Drug use goes undetected in our prisons.
Hilarious view on it all there lads. Post a few vague stats about all drug related deaths and sound like you know what you’re talking about. Trust me, smoking weed isn’t killing many even if you say it’s the most commonly used of the illegal drugs. There is one thing you should know. You can put all the law in the world behind the ‘war on drugs’ etc but in the end of the day, some people are going to get high no matter what.. they’ll find ways. The actual danger here is people like you who are blissfully unaware of what drugs are really bad and what ones are reletively harmless to people/soceity. You don’t realise that by turning a blind eye to the situation and calling for even heavier clampdowns etc. that you are passing the buck and very much ‘the problem’ and not dealers.
George. Given your hardline view that ‘drugs are bad’, would I be jumping the gun by saying that you were probably delighted when the headshops were closed with the banning of many substances? I think so.. See, this is where an ill-informed, lazy blanket attitude will fail again. People had easy access to a drug linked with deaths in the UK and Ireland (Mephadrone).. this is true. However of course it is not at all that simple. As I said in a previous post, people will get high one way or the other. If it’s easy then it is, if not, they will still find a way… look around the world for example. The point that I want to make here though is that although Mephadrone is dangerous, it’s illegal ‘replacement’ will be Meth. Now I suggest that you do some homework on meth cause it’s an absolute killer. We had the chance to keep our ‘party drug’ scene under control and we blew it. Now, You remember I said this George cause meth is coming… and it is your ignorance that’ll have brought it.. So maybe you should be a little more careful when calling for manslaughter charges.
I notice in your comments that you failed to offer any solution to dealing with those who sell death, murder, violence and the total destruction of people’s lives. Those who sell death are our modern day slave traders.
Although the dangers of drugs are blatantly obvious and increasingly well documented through schools and other educational programmes, people continue to experiment with them. The softly approach I find never works.
People need to work together, talk to police, regarding their suspicions. Talk to neighbours in their areas if they suspect a drug problem exists. Parents and others who suspect their loved ones are accessing such products need to stop covering up. Police will work actively with anyone to solve the problem. Draw attention to drug paraphernalia left lying about, note license plates of cars in the area. We must stop treating our police as enemies of the community. More people sharing knowledge will reduce the problem. There are cheaper and safer ways of ‘Getting High’ other than purchasing from ‘death dealers.’ Meth may be coming but only if there is a market and only if we accept that drugs are here to stay. Do not fool yourself, Headshops were really closed by Drug dealers, whose business was being seriously affected. Laws governing Headshops were introduced to cut costs of local fire brigades being called out.
George I’m not going to spend long writing this because you are one of many people in Ireland who paints every drug with the same colour. Black, evil and deadly. People like you will always be around. You have and old fashioned view on drugs, but please do some research. You say: Between 1998 and 2007 a total of 3,465 drug-related deaths and deaths among drug users was recorded, this is most likely true but I can guarentee you no more then 5 of those (if any atall) were purely because of cannabis use. These deaths would be caused by heroin, cocaine and solvent abuse. Every few months I would smoke cannabis daily and I still work a full time job and also have other responsabilities which I do well. Other times when I dont feel like smoking I dont, simple as that. I’m perfectly healthy and theres no reason why I shouldn’t be in the future. It’s only a matter of time before my generation and the other upcoming generations get into government and become the majority of Irelands voters. Cannabis will be legalised soon, so you may do some research on cannabis and stop your clearly notionless ranting.
Gary: Facts please. Users of cannabis usually move on to other more harmful drugs. However assuming they do not,cannabis damages your lungs which leads to severe breathing problems and strokes. It has been strongly linked to mental health problems, such as depression, anxiety, paranoia and schizophrenia. Regular use affects your memory, your coordination and reactions, your mood, your motivation and your ability to learn. With prolonged use of this substance you disconnect from reality and start showing symptoms such as delusions and hallucinations, even when you are no longer using the drug.
Regarding upcoming generations getting into government, one self confessed user, sedated and currently sitting in Dail Eireann, is one too many. A simple urine test could bring about a local election. I trust, with your views, you are not a parent.
George you said I didn’t offer any solution to the problem of drugs etc… When I spoke about the closing of the headshops as being a bad thing (or a lesser of 2 evils at least) then surely you could work out the rest for yourself. Personally I’d legalise most drugs. I’m not talking about my personal preferences here but you asked for a solution to stop drug related deaths/violence and it’s obvious that taking it out of the dealers hands is one step. That plus a cleaner product to the people who decide to live their life the way they want would drastically cut down on crime and drug related deaths/problems. As for your rant about the damage that weed does to your body, you could easily be talking about tobacco or alcohol. The only reason these 2 drugs are legal is because they have been part of our culture for such a long time. If Alcohol came out as a new drug recently can you imagine what people would be saying about the behaviour of people on it? … Maybe you should think about the situation in more depth.
totally agree 100% gary
George the reason why cannabis is seen as a gateway drug is because of people like you. If you tell your children all drugs are life threatening and highly dangerous, that’s horrible advice. They may try cannabis and realise the drug is harmless, so wouldn’t they come to the conclusion that if that didn’t harm them that heavy duty drugs like cocaine and heroin wont either? People like you create that danger not the drug itself. As for cannabis causing symptoms such as delusions and hallucinations that is a myth not a fact. As for the other things you mentioned, the amount of people who suffer them side affects are so minute as in 1 in 10,000 people who have tried cannabis suffer any kind of serious side affect. You would even find drugs in chemists (non-prescription) have a much, much higher chance of a serious side affect. You can’t even take that into account.
“It has been strongly linked to mental health problems, such as depression, anxiety, paranoia and schizophrenia. Regular use affects your memory, your coordination and reactions, your mood, your motivation and your ability to learn. With prolonged use of this substance you disconnect from reality and start showing symptoms such as delusions and hallucinations, even when you are no longer using the drug.”
Sounds very much like alcohol doesnt it. And you can be sure there were no Cannabis related deaths in Ireland in the last 100 years. And you cant generalise by saying just “Drugs”. Its like comaring the effects of Alcohol to the effects of a cup of tea. And regarding it damaging your lungs, well it doesnt have to be smoked does it?
Also, being under the effects is not Illegal in Ireland so a blood test wouldnt mean any sort of election.
Regarding users of cannabis moving onto harder drugs…well yes because they have to buy off dealers that supply other drugs. If you go to a sweet shop and only buy chocolate, you may be sure eventually you’re going to try the bon bons at some stage.
Having said all that, these Cannabis factory people should go down. But the issue here isn’t so much that they are producing cannabis. The issue is that they are making large amounts of money off something that is illegal in this country and I’m sure they are investing that money into the bigger money makers of more harmful drugs, death, violence and all the other negative things mentioned
So baring that in mind if it was legalised this would change the lay of the land for these criminals and take away a major source of income for them. Perhaps Ireland should take the Spanish approach where it was okay to cultivate for your own use but where trafficking would be harshly punished. And also that it would be something that couldn’t be consumed publicly but in the privacy of your own home. This would mean that those who enjoyed the benefits of cannabis could do so without fear of being criminalised, while these criminals could be stopped. It would also mean the market for these criminals would be severly depleated.
Jim – Yes it does sound like alcohol and indeed tobacco and yes laws and regulation have became necessary to introduce to control these also. Alcohol especially Cider was once used to supliment wages for labourers during harvest times. Uneducated, illiterate farm labourers would be served alcohol working in the field, instead of money. A farm worker could receive over one-fifth of his wage in cider. In 1887 the ‘Cider Truck Act’ was introduced to prohibit cider being used as wages. Understand that this cider wage was only of benifit to the earner and left wives / mothers and children without any benifits. You must understand any drug which is addictive and has the ability to control, gives great advantage and wealth to the greedy and the selfish. Drug dealers drive high powered cars, have quality housing, holiday at will, are responsible for increased crime, murder, violence, destruction of families and individuals lives. Shane Geoghegan (28) shot dead on a Limerick housing estate, mistook for a gangland criminal, is an example. Cancer victim Noel Piper whose body was found behind a skip is yet another. Addictive drugs of any kind, give those who sell same, control / power over other peoples lives and makes slaves of those who are addicts. Perhaps you would support that one-fifth of everyones pay should be marijuana. Certainly this would help reduce this countries pay bill and help to reduce crime, taking power from dealers. This would also solve pension problems and give a boost to the waiting lists by our elderly citizens in our hospitals, since people would die younger. We need to think less about ‘Me’ and more about our community as a whole. All drugs, be they be cannabis, alcohol or meth require control. Any wonder that our present government are attempting to remove education grants – it does not appear to have benefitted this country’s thinking processes in recent years.
Everyone here is talking bits of sense. The substance itself doesn’t cause death, murder and funding for criminal gangs and organizations but rather its illegal status does. Its no different than the bootleggers during prohibition. The illegal status of alcohol gave criminal gangs more funding than ever. The illegal status of cannabis is THE major funding source for all of the criminal gangs in Ireland. It is a natural unprocessed drug – its a plant for gods sake and it can be grown so easily and at such little cost that the financial yield in the black market is astronomical. Purely due to the fact that it is illegal. Regarding its potential as a gateway drug Jim hit the nail on the head with his sweet shop analogy. Alcohol related deaths are higher than combined drug related deaths every single year and it is legal. Cannabis and other drugs cannot be tarred with the same brush – that is completely illogical. They must be looked at and discussed individually . The legalization and taxation of cannabis would solve a huge number of problems for this country. It would take away the largest source of income for criminal gangs and provide much needed income to the government. Regarding its effects on health – using anything in excess is damaging to your health. Drink to much and you’ll destroy your liver – eat too many bananas and you can poison yourself! Education is the only way forward as regards the war on drugs – propaganda and scaremongering tactics are influencing ignorant people that genuinely don’t have a clue what they are talking about. Regarding the sedated comment by George on Ming Flannagan – cheap shots like that undermine your argument completely. TD’s tabs in the dail bar regularly run into the thousands – there are plenty of alcohol abusers in government I can assure you. Do a bit more research on Ming and you’ll find that his policies and ideas are sound and he is an intelligent hardworking man.
Thank you Conor, is there anyone else who’s not offering the old chestnuts for either side of the argument?
George I agree that anything that is addictive has the ability to control and change the pattern of how a person lives their life. But the fact of the matter is that there are a lot of other things that can be added to that list. Addiction to foods, addiction to shopping, addiction to TV, addiction to Video games, addiction to earning money… These are all things that control people in some way, if just in the way that they take the persons time away whilst only giving entertainment/recreation/some sort of a “Buzz”. Some may argue that these are just habits rather than addictions. I would say the same for cannabis. All those people who are apparently addicted…its a habit (which is basically a psychological addiction, not a physical one) and a habit can apply to anything. Also the difference with these examples I give is that they are accepted or in the case of shopping and making money, required for our society to survive. Another difference is that they are socially acceptable and they are controlled by laws (e.g. retail law, PEGI ratings etc etc).
My point is that if the same were to be done for cannabis (which is not nearly as harmful as alochol, less harmful than cigarettes and probably not as bad at making people lazy as TV) where they put in place laws to allow people to cultivate and consume in the privacy of their own home, then the money the dealers would get would go down to little or nothing and the power and the deadly grip that they currently have on the country would decrease hugely.
I also belive that use of harder drugs would decrease as I stated earlier because people would have no need to go to dealers.
“Perhaps you would support that one-fifth of everyones pay should be marijuana. ” What are you talking about here? That makes no sense. That whole paying people with cider was something you came up with.
“This would also solve pension problems and give a boost to the waiting lists by our elderly citizens in our hospitals, since people would die younger. ”
Smoking kills people. Consumption of cannabis doesnt.
“Any wonder that our present government are attempting to remove education grants – it does not appear to have benefitted this country’s thinking processes in recent years.”
Was that a dig of some sort? We can all see that the country is a mess and its due to the 45+ year olds that ran it. They didnt know how to control the place while the younger generation worked their butts off. Now a younger generation are coming, hopefully using logical thinking and maybe they can, in some way or other, clean up the horrible mess this country is in.
Using logic and a little bit of cop on the Gardaí resources can be put into combating things that actually harm people and the laws that do nothing to improve society can be scrapped and in turn stop the thugs from making money off decent people.
“That whole paying people with cider was something you came up with.” – See link: http://www.somersetvoices.org.uk/people/?entryid4=885&q=0%C2%ACPubs%C2%AC or http://pompeycider.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48&Itemid=50
In fact Guinness was discovered by accident when hops purchased in Thurles accidently got burnt. One of the then duties of Richard Guinness was to supervise the brewing of beer for the workers on the estate of Most Rev. Arthur Price, then Archbishop of Cashel. His son Arthur in 1752 was left an inheritance of £100 by Archbishop Price, he used the money to start his own brewery in Leixlip. Just three years later, he handed the business over to his brother Richard and went to Dublin with a view to starting a brewery of his own. (St James’s Gate)
“Was that a dig of some sort?” – Not so – President Obama mentioned Frederick Douglass’s legacy during his St Patrick’s Day address at the White House recently.
Frederick Douglass, was born a slave in Talbot County, Maryland, USA between Hillsboro and Cordova, probably in his grandmother’s shack east of Tappers Corner and west of Tuckahoe Creek. When Douglass was about twelve years old he became the property of slave owner Hugh Auld. Hugh Auld’s wife, Sophia, started teaching him the alphabet despite the fact that it was against the law to teach slaves to read. When Hugh Auld discovered her activity, he strongly disapproved, saying that if a slave learned to read, he would become dissatisfied with his condition and desire freedom.
The penal laws here in Ireland in the mid 1700’s practised a similar doctrine, hence control of priests. Keep the peasants ignorant and they can be controlled for the benefit of others.
Anything which is addictive leads to the weak minded in our society becoming the slaves of the greedy and ruthless, many of whom govern presently while others cost this state massive sums of taxpayers’ money, through investigation of their criminal activities, latter necessary for the common good. Do we complain about this waste of money? – No – We demand more police while we complain about increased taxation.
The educational system presently made available to each & every person in this land has somehow failed, when we as reasonably intelligent people discuss the benefits and tolerate substances that we both agree destroy communities.
Forgive me for expressing a no tolerance attitude to substance abuse.
When I was young in the 50’s smoking was good for you according to the ads. It would help you relax.
I’d guess the papers were not allowed to tell the truth, if they knew about it then.
My beautiful son life is totally destroyed from cannibas. His life is in tatters, he is very seriously ill from the drug. He had perfect mental health, good friends, always laughing b4 cannabis. It is a killer drug, and has completely altered my son. I’ve gone through 6 years of hell because of cannabis. I can’t turn the clock back.
John , I feel for you. God give you strength.
There is so much rubbish on this forum. The fact of the matter is that nobody has ever died from cannibus and the people who say all drugs kill as they are illegal are ignorant to reality. There are a lot of very addictive and harmful drugs out there but provided it is used responsibly weed is not one of them.
It is a natural plant grown in the ground and had it been providing massive companies like diageo(Guinness), SABMiller, heineken and AB InBev with combined values of in excess of 300 billion with that kind of money it would be legal today. Alcohol is a much more lethal drug but there is a misinformed Irish attitude that: ”if it’s illegal it must be deadly”. This stupidity is what causes activities such as cannibus cultivation to be illegal and underground where it should be legal, controlled and regulated.
You know I didn’t read all the comments fully when I posted and I’ll have to say actually Conor is bang on. He understands all aspects of it. Good and bad…
Some people have crazy narrow minded views. Cannabis is not a killer. George your mad to this people who deal weed should get manslaughter. Smoking weed doesn’t kill could make you schizophrenic but even that isn’t proven. Alcohol and cigarettes are the leading drugs that cause death so should we charge shop keepers and bar men with man slaughter too. If this was heroin I would completely agree but is not and to be honest your talking out of your arse. Cannabis is not physically addictive either. Thank you Brian who actually have an opinion not a socialist brain washed view
Emma, try defaulting on €1000 owed to your Cannabis supplier sometime. All drugs kill due to one reason or another. Do you ever read the newspaper or watch your TV. How many people lost their lives, in gang wars, just this month alone? How many innocent people lost their lives in the past 12 months because of mistaken identity? Were these people shot over buying/selling cigarettes? Regret to inform you that you are the person talking from your rear end.
Having read the points of view here and ‘lived’ a little myself in the real world I would like to ask you to give Naom Chomsky a few minutes of your time. Chomsky is an author, political scientist, sociologist, libertarian socialist (in the true and idelic sence of socialism), an intellectual and counter propagandaist and someone who can add something to this debate
(Quick quote from Chomsky before the clip): ‘No honest journalist should be willing to describe himself or herseif as ’embedded.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JolWD1DpykA
George
Your arguments make no sense. Try defaulting on the 1000 euro you owe to your illegal cigarette supplier. Try defaulting on the 1000 euro you owe on your car. Try defaulting on the 1000 euro you owe on your groceries. Its all going to end up bad (especially the groceries because there is nothing to reclaim).
And the people who were shot were shot because one illegal businessman had his/her business threatened by another illegal businessman and by nature of the fact the business is illegal and normal justice does not prevail they used their own “justice”. Its sad, its disgusting but its true and so much could be prevented by seeing what is doing the real damage : The law is handing the criminals a market that a LOT of normal everyday people will partake in (just in case you dont get it, I’m talking about the cannabis market), thus feeding the criminals money. Its as simple as that. Remove the market out of the hands of the criminals and remove the money from their pockets.
And to make a statement like “all drugs kill due tp one reason or another”…. All drugs like the life saving ones or do you just mean the illegal ones? And what about if cannabis was made legal tomorrow? Would it suddinly not be a drug anymore? Would it be okay like a herb growing in your garden? Or perhaps nutmeg, or coffee, or tea which are all drugs too should be made illegal too? Or are they not drugs because now law rules reality and science?
Or if you are the religous type how about Genesis 1:29: “And God said, ‘Behold I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree-yielding seed: to you it shall be for meat’.
Maybe you could explain how 10 years ago it was legal to smoke in a bar and kill the bar man slowly and now it is illegal to do so? Was it alright to do it then and if so why? And if not why?
Its not as simple as you put it George. And please dont try and discuss this with me because you just go off on tangents about subjects unlinked to what I said.
Remember that he who flies in the face of logic flies in the face of the truth.
George for a number of reasons your ‘if you default’ argument is a load of rubbish. First of all defaulting means that you would buy it on credit which would not be an issue if it was legal and ye shop owner could just say: ‘sorry we don’t sell on credit’ just as a grocery shop would if you went in for a pack of beer and were unknown to the shopkeeper.
Secondly if anyone was to buy 1000 euro of weed for their own use in a small amount of time then they have a problem. My argument was based on the premise of responsible use. That’s like taking an argument against alcohol being legal with a severe alcoholic being your only case study.
The number of deaths caused by drugs in Ireland has risen by 51 per cent over a six-year period. The research also showed that in 2009, 68 per cent of those who died from drug poisoning, were male. The majority of those poisoning were aged between 25 and 44, with over half of those 37 or younger. Heroin was linked to 90 deaths in 2008, but that number rose to 119 in 2000. (Their were 186 road deaths in 2011, but governments can generate massive revenues by pretending to care when it comes to road deaths.) The majority of overdose victims die alone and the number of drug users who died from hanging or from drowning, supports the argument that substance misuse is related to suicide.
Cannabis was the illicit drug most commonly found in the toxicology results of deaths due to trauma. Cannabis (40, 67.8%), opiates (24, 40.7%) and cocaine (18, 30.5%) were found in the greatest proportions in deaths due to violence (shooting, stabbing or assault). On top of this ecstasy (26, 28.6%) was found in the greatest proportion of deaths due to road traffic collisions.
Shane Geoghegan, a rugby player from Garryowen was shot and killed in a case of mistaken identity. The murder took place in the early hours of Sunday morning, 9 November 2008. He had no links with organised crime gangs.The murder was linked to the ongoing feud between rival criminal gangs in Limerick and their battle to control drug supplies in Limerick. He was gunned down when up to 15 shots were fired at him. Up to 200 Gardaí, needed elsewhere, worked on the murder enquiry, with 50 officers fully dedicated to this case on a daily basis for 4 years.
Anthony Campbell, (20) an apprentice plumber was an innocent victim caught up in the gun murder of a leading crime boss Martin “Marlo” Hyland in 2006. CAB seized more than €200,000 in cash and a property portfolio from Martin Hyland, the proceeds of drug trafficking.
In the words of William Shakespeare from The Merchant of Venice; “The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.“
For god sake George read you argument!!! Since the gards and anyone with a brain will tell you, you can’t get rid of drugs altogether then by far the most logical solution is to create a distinction between hard and soft drugs. As you say cannabis is highly prevalent in our society. Thus if it is legalised and controlled even more stringently than alcohol then it means that gards no longer have to waste resources on combating something so common and harmless if used responsibly.
Then once cannabis is taken out of the criminals control they lose massive power in the country. A weakened criminal power in Ireland combined with far more resources on the gards side means that the gards will be much better able to combat the drugs and criminals that are actually causing horrible effects to society.
I genuinely feel horrible for John who commented on this forum about his son who unfortunately was one of the few that misused cannabis and was taken over by it. I do not in any way mean to devalue Johns point or situation but I must say that I can only imagine the amount of parents in the same position due to alcohol. Also if a criminal is asked by a consumer for more weed they are most certainly not going to say ‘no, you have had enough my friend’ whereas in a controlled legal way there could be systems put in place to control the amount of cannabis consumed by an individual thus lowering the already small risk of that happening.
You are quoting the same little stories and statistics but you fail to accept that we are actually proposing a solution to the problem by legalisation, not a further problem!